If Chappell Roan being dressed as a sex doll makes her “not a feminist” then every woman who has worn a skirt in a patriarchal society is “not a feminist.” Men have proved that no matter how we dress they see us as objects for sexual pleasure. It didn’t matter what Chappell wore that night, it has never mattered what a woman was wearing. I argue that critiquing a woman’s morals based on what she wears is the real anti feminist position.
needed this essay as someone who recently ranted over choice feminism….LOL. like yikes lowkey as what you describe as a “anti-choice feminist” this was a hard pill to swallow. but i’m essentially grateful for it because it forced me to confront things i wasn’t ready to admit.
i think some of my perspective comes from the fact that i actually know many liberal women that you describe as unconvincing in real life. and (sorry not trying to get into the discourse, just bringing it up as an example to a larger question) i also don’t think the Sabrina Carpenter issue is really with the album cover itself, but rather it being paired with the title. i didnt care about Chappell’s costume and i didn’t care about the juno sex positions or her naked on a magazine cover. But the reason the album cover caused such a stir to me had more to do with the implication of her as a man’s bitch. from the dog leash pose to the title, i wouldn’t say it’s something to completely dismiss as just an expression of her sexuality when her expression on a large stage does have an some sort of impact on culture. because i believe that sometimes culture does influence some material reality. like we’ve seen with the popularization of phrases such as “i’m just a girl” and “embracing my divine feminine” and “now i like pink again”. those phrases going from joking about not wanting to take out the trash to this learned helplessness and massive trad wave that i’ve seen everywhere is concerning and i’ve seen it’s impacts in real life. i don’t think that one album cover has this massive amount of power to cause significant material harm. and i also agree that the true demon is white supremacy + capitalism. after reading, i understand now that as a feminist, i should put my energy, critique, and backing behind the root causes/compensation rather than claiming a moral high ground from criticizing a woman for not being “feminist enough”.
so i guess my question is: to what extent does culture impact material conditions? to what extent should we try to combat that culture as a barrier to liberation from those conditions? or does “culture” even matter when regardless of trad-waves or girlboss “put it in a messy bun and handle it” women are still not free? should we only try to attack the material conditions and acknowledge the impact of culture but not organize around it? etc.
The mental health statistics for adolescent girls bear out the ways in which your concerns, which I share, are vital to this discussion. The ways in which these stars and their imagery interface with male-coded algorithms that reward hypersexualization populate the feeds of young women. In my opinion, which emerges from working in the field as an activist with tween and teen girls, if what they saw was serving them they would not be in such dire straits.
also i’ve been a huge fan of the pod since like 2022 (and of rayne) so i mean all of this in good faith and with true earnest!! i needed to hear this and im curious to learn more! <3
I think positioning female celebrities’ (excluding Roan’s) images as “playful sexuality” is a disservice when their industries are run by men. It kind of seems like a projection of your femme identity onto these women, who are laboring under conditions of social and sexual discrimination.
this! nothing Sabrina does is what she chose to do — her music isn’t written by her, her fits aren’t chosen by her, her opinions probably aren’t even hers. it’s all PR hired by firms and labels owned and run by men, and they’re being marketed at young women and girls. it’s all bad, and while I can’t hold Sabrina accountable for the actual choices being made in that regard, she is choosing to go along with it all for $$$
I think the thing that gets lost is the why of it all. Like fundamentally people's individual choices don't matter but why are they making these? I do not care about Chappell Roan's costume, or even Chappell Roan at all, but the engine that fuels them. Why does Chappell Roan want to dress like a sex doll? It does not matter if it is dehumanising, subversive or empowering, it is most probably none of them. Whether we like it or not, our entire psyche is shaped by the culture that we live in, to a large degree freedom of choice is a mere illusion.
Therefore, we have to look at how our brains are being shaped and formed through the culture that we live in and find ways of resisting both through structural and individual means. No one is a 'good feminist' because we don't live in a world where that is possible, just as it is impossible to truly not be racist etc.. We all have to make patriarchal bargains to get by in this world.
So instead how can we focus on the machinery of patriarchy? Of resisting it, but more importantly dismantling it. It is a gnarly and complex task and requires us to focus on the systems at play, of which the sex industry is one among many that contribute to the dehumanisation of women. People want to believe that if women opt out of participating in our dehumanisation than things will change but it is more complex than that. But it is captivating because it seems like a part of the system that is potentially inside of our control. At the same time, it is important to recognise the truth that these industries to contribute to our dehumanisation.
I live in a place where sex work is completely legal, and narratives of it as an empowering force, freedom of choice etc.. were potent in achieving that outcome, but the benefit of being able to operate inside the law has largely been seen by male owners. simultaneously we have the highest rate of intimate partner violence in the OECD. Obviously these things are not causative but point to a strong culture of the dehumanisation of women. So while these narratives are not as powerful as some people may think, the point you make is also not totally true.
How do you change a culture of dehumanisation? The question is so big, I guess it makes sense that people fixate on what our cultural touchstones a doing in this moment to shape culture.
you say “To which I ask, who is trying to convince you?” at the end of a paragraph literally describing the polarity in discourse on this subject, and how rampant it can be, especially online. it could be argued that this entire essay was trying to convince me that prostitution is, or can be, progressive.
personally, I live at the strange intersection of I-want-to-support-women-deciding-for-themselves and truly believing that on the whole sex work is harmful to women. it’s been heavily documented by tons of women who have left roles in various areas of the sex industry and I have personally known former (and some current) strippers, escorts, sugar babies, and prostitutes who have nothing but negative things to say about their experiences with sex work. at the end of the day it is based on the exploitation, commodification, and objectification of women’s bodies and is 10000% set by patriarchal standards despite what people tell themselves in order to get through it. sexual liberation does not need to encompass sex work and I feel tired by the need for constantly watered-down feminism that coddles everyone’s feelings.
that all being said, I say all of these things about Sex Work as a concept and industry, and again, on an individual basis I will always support a woman doing what she truly wants to do (although in my own head I still question why she would want to do it, and often times the reasons they have still rely on some level of delusion or desperation).
also, anyone basing their feminism off of what pop stars are doing is off their fucking rocker. Roan isn’t as bad, but it’s pretty damn obvious that everything Sabrina Carpenter does is what her PR team told her to do. they want a reaction, and they always get one. no publicity is bad publicity or something, right?
Ok what? Maybe I'm the problem and I have terrible reading comprehension, but I stopped reading halfway through cause it was so incoherent I still don't know what side you're on. Like what??
"While I’m pretty obvious in my lesbianism, from the double venus tattoo on my chest to the fact that I tell everyone that I’m a femme lesbian, that of course does not stop the dehumanization and harassment I face as a woman. Once when I was commuting to my job, a white pickup truck pulled up next to me as I was walking to my bus stop. One of the men in the car asked if he could take me out to dinner sometime. Abruptly, I told them I was a lesbian, put my Airpod back in my ear, and walked off quickly."
Dehumanization and harassment as a woman???? What??? God forbid a guy sees you walking on the street, is attracted to you and asks you out. Being pretty must be sooo hard because they just won't leave you alone, will they? I wasn't there so I don't have the full context but still. Was he creepy? After you rejected him he drove away right? Problem solved, all you had to tell him was you were lesbian and that's it. Idk if you had the tattoo showing or not, but if you did, maybe he didn't see it or maybe saw it and probably didn't understand what it meant. Yeah I'm defending a man which doesn't sound very girls girl of me to do, but come on. He didn't dehumanize you by asking you out. Of course I'm going to defend him, he didn't do anything wrong. Wowww you've freed yourself from the patriarchy by refusing to be straight yet somehow you're still oppressed. Why don't you talk about women who are actually oppressed, like the Muslim ones in the middle east?
the thing is: people are really ignorant when it comes to see something in a not literal way. if you look at her costume and thinks immediately "this is so not feminist she's endorsing this she's endorsing that" then you really have a problem with interpretation. some provocations come in the pure and blatant form of the thing. Mariana Abramovic is a perfect example: she exposed human nature with the very demonstration of what humans do with her own body. so how are we going to highlight certain issues if we don't put exactly what it is? I think this kind of manifestation makes people feel ashamed because it exposes a problem outside of theory. everyone has become too comfortable to theory, and that is part of the problem: practical demonstrations are frightening, at the same time as they expose a problem of interpretation. those who are offended by her provocation are not so progressive and liberal. we have examples of this in Brazil: supposedly left-wing people who border on conservatism when reacting to something outside of their own moral primer.
plus: when people dig about her life to question your sexuality, they are ignoring the whole problem of being born homosexual and forgetting that society as a whole DOES NOT ACCEPT YOU! We are born in different circumstances, such as regional or religious, we deal with hetcomp, social pressure and so much more sh*t. is not fair to dig about what a lesbian passed through before she embraced her own sexuality just to invalidate her. I will never accept that.
Jesus Christ Chappell Roan is a disgrace to women the world over. This isn’t new for her but it’s becoming more and more blatant. So fucking embarrassing, but more important, destructive. Hope she wakes up to herself one day and stops promoting male-pattern violence, misogyny, and anti-lesbian bullshit.
This is the absolute best take on this manufactured hand wringing around Roan Chappell. She is s fully consenting adult to dress how she wants. I personally think it speaks to how women are still frequently forced to show up on the world. For me it feels similar to calling myself queer, Because it was weaponized against us for so long.
Yes. When will people realize that feminism is about the freedom to be whatever kind of woman (or person) you want to be? The “trad wife” or the blow up doll, or anything in between. I think Chappell dressed up as a blow up doll because it’s fun, funny, and camp—it doesn’t have to be any deeper than that!
I have no real issue with the sex doll fit, but if what you’re doing is harmful to women in general it is not feminist just because you chose to do it. it IS deeper than that, and pretending that it isn’t is exactly why we say y’all are not understanding what feminism is.
If Chappell Roan being dressed as a sex doll makes her “not a feminist” then every woman who has worn a skirt in a patriarchal society is “not a feminist.” Men have proved that no matter how we dress they see us as objects for sexual pleasure. It didn’t matter what Chappell wore that night, it has never mattered what a woman was wearing. I argue that critiquing a woman’s morals based on what she wears is the real anti feminist position.
needed this essay as someone who recently ranted over choice feminism….LOL. like yikes lowkey as what you describe as a “anti-choice feminist” this was a hard pill to swallow. but i’m essentially grateful for it because it forced me to confront things i wasn’t ready to admit.
i think some of my perspective comes from the fact that i actually know many liberal women that you describe as unconvincing in real life. and (sorry not trying to get into the discourse, just bringing it up as an example to a larger question) i also don’t think the Sabrina Carpenter issue is really with the album cover itself, but rather it being paired with the title. i didnt care about Chappell’s costume and i didn’t care about the juno sex positions or her naked on a magazine cover. But the reason the album cover caused such a stir to me had more to do with the implication of her as a man’s bitch. from the dog leash pose to the title, i wouldn’t say it’s something to completely dismiss as just an expression of her sexuality when her expression on a large stage does have an some sort of impact on culture. because i believe that sometimes culture does influence some material reality. like we’ve seen with the popularization of phrases such as “i’m just a girl” and “embracing my divine feminine” and “now i like pink again”. those phrases going from joking about not wanting to take out the trash to this learned helplessness and massive trad wave that i’ve seen everywhere is concerning and i’ve seen it’s impacts in real life. i don’t think that one album cover has this massive amount of power to cause significant material harm. and i also agree that the true demon is white supremacy + capitalism. after reading, i understand now that as a feminist, i should put my energy, critique, and backing behind the root causes/compensation rather than claiming a moral high ground from criticizing a woman for not being “feminist enough”.
so i guess my question is: to what extent does culture impact material conditions? to what extent should we try to combat that culture as a barrier to liberation from those conditions? or does “culture” even matter when regardless of trad-waves or girlboss “put it in a messy bun and handle it” women are still not free? should we only try to attack the material conditions and acknowledge the impact of culture but not organize around it? etc.
The mental health statistics for adolescent girls bear out the ways in which your concerns, which I share, are vital to this discussion. The ways in which these stars and their imagery interface with male-coded algorithms that reward hypersexualization populate the feeds of young women. In my opinion, which emerges from working in the field as an activist with tween and teen girls, if what they saw was serving them they would not be in such dire straits.
also i’ve been a huge fan of the pod since like 2022 (and of rayne) so i mean all of this in good faith and with true earnest!! i needed to hear this and im curious to learn more! <3
*its FUCK
I think positioning female celebrities’ (excluding Roan’s) images as “playful sexuality” is a disservice when their industries are run by men. It kind of seems like a projection of your femme identity onto these women, who are laboring under conditions of social and sexual discrimination.
this! nothing Sabrina does is what she chose to do — her music isn’t written by her, her fits aren’t chosen by her, her opinions probably aren’t even hers. it’s all PR hired by firms and labels owned and run by men, and they’re being marketed at young women and girls. it’s all bad, and while I can’t hold Sabrina accountable for the actual choices being made in that regard, she is choosing to go along with it all for $$$
I think the thing that gets lost is the why of it all. Like fundamentally people's individual choices don't matter but why are they making these? I do not care about Chappell Roan's costume, or even Chappell Roan at all, but the engine that fuels them. Why does Chappell Roan want to dress like a sex doll? It does not matter if it is dehumanising, subversive or empowering, it is most probably none of them. Whether we like it or not, our entire psyche is shaped by the culture that we live in, to a large degree freedom of choice is a mere illusion.
Therefore, we have to look at how our brains are being shaped and formed through the culture that we live in and find ways of resisting both through structural and individual means. No one is a 'good feminist' because we don't live in a world where that is possible, just as it is impossible to truly not be racist etc.. We all have to make patriarchal bargains to get by in this world.
So instead how can we focus on the machinery of patriarchy? Of resisting it, but more importantly dismantling it. It is a gnarly and complex task and requires us to focus on the systems at play, of which the sex industry is one among many that contribute to the dehumanisation of women. People want to believe that if women opt out of participating in our dehumanisation than things will change but it is more complex than that. But it is captivating because it seems like a part of the system that is potentially inside of our control. At the same time, it is important to recognise the truth that these industries to contribute to our dehumanisation.
I live in a place where sex work is completely legal, and narratives of it as an empowering force, freedom of choice etc.. were potent in achieving that outcome, but the benefit of being able to operate inside the law has largely been seen by male owners. simultaneously we have the highest rate of intimate partner violence in the OECD. Obviously these things are not causative but point to a strong culture of the dehumanisation of women. So while these narratives are not as powerful as some people may think, the point you make is also not totally true.
How do you change a culture of dehumanisation? The question is so big, I guess it makes sense that people fixate on what our cultural touchstones a doing in this moment to shape culture.
Hopefully we can recognize that the commercialized RuPaul’s Drag Race is not the be all end all of queer experience, let alone gender nonconformity.
It has been a very, very long time since I’ve looked at that show as a barometer and we’d all be better off doing the same.
you say “To which I ask, who is trying to convince you?” at the end of a paragraph literally describing the polarity in discourse on this subject, and how rampant it can be, especially online. it could be argued that this entire essay was trying to convince me that prostitution is, or can be, progressive.
personally, I live at the strange intersection of I-want-to-support-women-deciding-for-themselves and truly believing that on the whole sex work is harmful to women. it’s been heavily documented by tons of women who have left roles in various areas of the sex industry and I have personally known former (and some current) strippers, escorts, sugar babies, and prostitutes who have nothing but negative things to say about their experiences with sex work. at the end of the day it is based on the exploitation, commodification, and objectification of women’s bodies and is 10000% set by patriarchal standards despite what people tell themselves in order to get through it. sexual liberation does not need to encompass sex work and I feel tired by the need for constantly watered-down feminism that coddles everyone’s feelings.
that all being said, I say all of these things about Sex Work as a concept and industry, and again, on an individual basis I will always support a woman doing what she truly wants to do (although in my own head I still question why she would want to do it, and often times the reasons they have still rely on some level of delusion or desperation).
also, anyone basing their feminism off of what pop stars are doing is off their fucking rocker. Roan isn’t as bad, but it’s pretty damn obvious that everything Sabrina Carpenter does is what her PR team told her to do. they want a reaction, and they always get one. no publicity is bad publicity or something, right?
Ok what? Maybe I'm the problem and I have terrible reading comprehension, but I stopped reading halfway through cause it was so incoherent I still don't know what side you're on. Like what??
"While I’m pretty obvious in my lesbianism, from the double venus tattoo on my chest to the fact that I tell everyone that I’m a femme lesbian, that of course does not stop the dehumanization and harassment I face as a woman. Once when I was commuting to my job, a white pickup truck pulled up next to me as I was walking to my bus stop. One of the men in the car asked if he could take me out to dinner sometime. Abruptly, I told them I was a lesbian, put my Airpod back in my ear, and walked off quickly."
Dehumanization and harassment as a woman???? What??? God forbid a guy sees you walking on the street, is attracted to you and asks you out. Being pretty must be sooo hard because they just won't leave you alone, will they? I wasn't there so I don't have the full context but still. Was he creepy? After you rejected him he drove away right? Problem solved, all you had to tell him was you were lesbian and that's it. Idk if you had the tattoo showing or not, but if you did, maybe he didn't see it or maybe saw it and probably didn't understand what it meant. Yeah I'm defending a man which doesn't sound very girls girl of me to do, but come on. He didn't dehumanize you by asking you out. Of course I'm going to defend him, he didn't do anything wrong. Wowww you've freed yourself from the patriarchy by refusing to be straight yet somehow you're still oppressed. Why don't you talk about women who are actually oppressed, like the Muslim ones in the middle east?
Ok what? Maybe I’m the problem and I have terrible reading comprehension, but I stopped reading halfway through
the thing is: people are really ignorant when it comes to see something in a not literal way. if you look at her costume and thinks immediately "this is so not feminist she's endorsing this she's endorsing that" then you really have a problem with interpretation. some provocations come in the pure and blatant form of the thing. Mariana Abramovic is a perfect example: she exposed human nature with the very demonstration of what humans do with her own body. so how are we going to highlight certain issues if we don't put exactly what it is? I think this kind of manifestation makes people feel ashamed because it exposes a problem outside of theory. everyone has become too comfortable to theory, and that is part of the problem: practical demonstrations are frightening, at the same time as they expose a problem of interpretation. those who are offended by her provocation are not so progressive and liberal. we have examples of this in Brazil: supposedly left-wing people who border on conservatism when reacting to something outside of their own moral primer.
plus: when people dig about her life to question your sexuality, they are ignoring the whole problem of being born homosexual and forgetting that society as a whole DOES NOT ACCEPT YOU! We are born in different circumstances, such as regional or religious, we deal with hetcomp, social pressure and so much more sh*t. is not fair to dig about what a lesbian passed through before she embraced her own sexuality just to invalidate her. I will never accept that.
an incredibly well written and well thought out piece that i’m honored to have contributed to!!! i love u sunny
Jesus Christ Chappell Roan is a disgrace to women the world over. This isn’t new for her but it’s becoming more and more blatant. So fucking embarrassing, but more important, destructive. Hope she wakes up to herself one day and stops promoting male-pattern violence, misogyny, and anti-lesbian bullshit.
Did you read the essay?
just a raging TERF, not even worth engaging
This is the absolute best take on this manufactured hand wringing around Roan Chappell. She is s fully consenting adult to dress how she wants. I personally think it speaks to how women are still frequently forced to show up on the world. For me it feels similar to calling myself queer, Because it was weaponized against us for so long.
No; never defend hollywood celebrities, NEVER.
Uhhhh….muted.
Mind blown, pal! Same thoughts, but no words like this! Love it! Keep the essays coming!
Omg this randomly came up on my feed and i read the whole thing before realizing who wrote it!!! Hi from jesse’s brother. Love this piece!
Yes. When will people realize that feminism is about the freedom to be whatever kind of woman (or person) you want to be? The “trad wife” or the blow up doll, or anything in between. I think Chappell dressed up as a blow up doll because it’s fun, funny, and camp—it doesn’t have to be any deeper than that!
I have no real issue with the sex doll fit, but if what you’re doing is harmful to women in general it is not feminist just because you chose to do it. it IS deeper than that, and pretending that it isn’t is exactly why we say y’all are not understanding what feminism is.